The full review could be interesting.
Nice review. As a soon to be ex-BMW driver, it's getting harder and harder to remember why I was so excited by these ICE cats. I love the comments at the end.
"BMW is everything wrong about how car makers handle in-car tech. Tesla is the way it should be."
"Drop dead gorgeous car. Why can't BMW build something that looks like it? Simple, elegant and damn hot attractive lines. Maybe Munich should lure away some of the Tesla designers."
I think BMW owners will be some of the fist non-greens to really "Get" MS.
Or they do what I did (former BMW owner) and just get a TMS :-)
Good luck with your new delivery, btw! :)
I was at my BMW dealer last week for a brake fluid service 'alarm'. Couldn't schedule for two weeks. Guy saw my Tesla hat and asked about it. Anyway, he made the comment " What will you do when they are no longer around and you need parts?". I said "Bashing it won't make it go away. You guys need to focus on catching up."
@hsadler: but that's a valid concern. Look at Fisker. It can happen to small companies. One significant mis-step (or a series of smaller ones) and you'll burn through your capital before you know it. And clearly Tesla is not "too big to fail".
I keep seeing this attitude here in the Forums.
No, Elon Musk is not infallible.
No, there is no insurmountable lead for Tesla in the market. Any of the big four have the money to catch up - they just need to decide that this is the target they want to go for.
No, I don't think that BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and Porsche will just roll over and declare defeat.
We are very, very early in this fight. And this is a marathon, not a sprint. I thought long and hard about spending a significant amount of money on a car backed by a comparably tiny company. The excitement of driving the TMS won, but I'm not foolish or naive enough to believe the "Tesla has already won" mantra that people keep repeating here.
One bad firmware flaw that they can't fix in a week or two with a significant enough number of Tesla's stranded to catch media attention. One house fire that someone manages to blame on a Tesla car. A couple of crashes allegedly caused by malfunctioning electronics. The list of things that could derail Tesla in no time is long.
Do I think Tesla will fail? No.
Do I think BMW (or anyone else) will have a better car in the near future? No.
Do I think "this one is in the bag, we can sit back and enjoy watching the victory lab"? Heck No.
I am still giving TM 5 years. By then they will have gone out of business or have been bought out by someone. Probably M-B or Toyota.
What I don't understand is why does it have to be a battle of ICE vs. EV? ICE vehicle manufacturers don't have to abandon ICE vehicles in order to sell one or more EVs. It would behoove all traditional auto makers to add at at least one EV to their lineup. That is where the industry is going and by sticking their heads in the sand, these manufacturers will face the same fate as RIM/Blackberry. Now there is a turd nobody could polish, not even a new CEO, because they cannot think outside of their ancient paradigm.
EVs are here to stay and they are going to take over the automotive industry. I think the market is ultimately going to tell them to get on board or get out of the way.
A counter-argument here says Tesla has already won, because of the logical, financial, and technological trap the majors find themselves in:
"ICE vehicle manufacturers don't have to abandon ICE vehicles in order to sell one or more EVs."
But once you drive a good EV, there's no going back to an ICE.
ICE cars really and truly SUCK. You have to look to the very best cars ever made to find one that is fun, and then it's dirty and complicated. And expensive to maintain it's 1500 moving parts.
Tesla has argued that it doesn't want to have dealerships for this is EXACT REASON. Car sellers would undermine much of their traditional business if they have to sell EVs side by side.
@lola Porsche owners too. The Panamera owners, and Cayenne owners next year, will have to ask themselves the hard question, what is it in the Porsche that can justify not to switch.
@cerjor Do you know the reasons why Nokia or Blackberry did not buy Apple, or Blockbuster did not by Netflix when they can? The same reason the big auto companies will not buy Tesla. Market leaders rarely switch to a new technology either by develop it themselves or by purchasing another company. They will not want to give up something that has been going so good either for the share holders or, more importantly, for their (the decision makers) own position in the company. It's usually too late when the truth finally down on them.
"It's usually too late when it dawns on them"
Ain't that the truth. Take all the big 3 automakers, the dealerships, the conservative climate change deniers... It will be too late for them. Mankind and all species in general always have a mix of individuals. Some adapt and change, others take a lot of time.
I recently sold my 2008 M3 and bought a P85+. Tesla is far superior in every way.
+1 @BrianH, @carlk, @SamOSam and @RedShift
Tesla is not going away. The American Auto Industry is back and it is called "Tesla".
"Conservative climate change deniers" don't exist. Those you are so labelling actually deny that Anthropogenic Global Warming is significant. Since CO2 emissions continue to accelerate globally (despite major US drops due to recession and Natural Gas use) and yet temperature is at a ~17-yr statistical standstill (falsifying EVERY Global Circulation Model), the science is heavily on their side.
In all geological or recent history, there is no correlation between CO2 levels and temperature. Other than an 800-yr-lagged CO2 rise after sea surface temps rise, due to outgassing. Even the temperature rise prior to 2000 occurred all in one year or so, 1997-8, in a rebound from Pinatubo plus a super-El Nino.
The EVA's designation of CO2 as a pollutant was a complete kludge, using political IPCC summaries in lieu of the scientific studies they were legally mandated to conduct. They punted, IOW, and got the direction wrong.
corr: the EPA's designation ...
In all geological or recent history, there is no correlation between CO2 levels and temperature.
I don't see your statement reflected in science. What would you say about this: http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-temperature-correlation.htm
You are not by any chance a follower of Lord Monckton?
Climate denier's choose the 17 year cycle (rather than looking back 50 or 70 years where the observations of warming are indisputable.
What about the thousands of record high temperatures recorded each year vs. a few record lows?
Brian H can't answer anything from skepticalscience because his mind is closed to it.
I think you have lost a lot of credibility with your recent mis-statement on climate science. :-(
In any case, this forum is not for that debate.
I've enjoyed your posts in the past but this one takes the cake.
Consider basic thermodynamics.... You are taking a closed system and releasing (burning) a tremendous amount of stored energy. If you do not think that is going to have unintended negative consequences then there is really little hope for your deductive powers. I do not require other's research to understand that consuming natural resources unnecessarily at an alarming rate should not be done.
Sorry to turn on you like this but leaving statements like the one above unchallenged is unacceptable.
Brian H, the vast majority of the scientific community disagrees with you.
Anyway, back to BMWs - I got a 3 series BMW wagon as my first expensive car purchase because I loved how it drove. I agree with 'the ultimate driving machine' tag line. At the time, it was the best car out there, at any price,
for me and my recreational activities (and family).
I bought the Model S recently to replace it, because it's better.
(I will say there are aspects to the BMW handling that I prefer, mainly because its a smaller car. For example, the size of the steering wheel is a little more to my liking. And I've got to think decades of performance experience count for something. But even so, overall, even in terms of just the handling/performance experience, Tesla still beats the 'ultimate driving experience.' True story: when I drove my BMW after having used the tesla, I thought it was broken - something wrong with the engine, because it seemed so sluggish. Of course there wasn't, I'd just gotten used to the Tesla.)
@stimeygee - funny, I am also exchanging a 3 series BMW wagon for a TMS. Only this was my 9th BMW in the last 25 years :-)
And apparently my last.
I did not buy the TMS for the lower CO2 emissions. That just happens to be a nice side effect. I bought it because it's the most fun to drive car I have ever been in. And it is bigger and more comfortable then my Beamer. And drop dead gorgeous.
Oh yeah, and I guess it's good for the environment, too. It's definitely good for US jobs...
Just want to add one comment to lolachampcar's. It took hundreds of millions of years, long before we are even here, to form those fossil fuels. Now men want to release them all back to the atmosphere in a few hundred years without knowing what long term and short term consequences that will bring. I see a lot of wrong of doing this.
535i for me and 535i wagon for my wife. The sedan is already history and hers is next. Bye bye BMW. It has been good but now it is better.
sia, what debate is appropriate? Do you really think you are the one to make these decisions?
@lolachamper, the earth is not a closed system. @brian, forget it, *their* minds are closed. My $0.02: science is all about making hypothesis, then testing the hypothesis through making a prediction and seeing if it is accurate. All global warming models have been predicting temperature rises in the past decade. The rises have not materialized ( if you use the more accurate satellite temperature data). I'll leave it at that.
@lolachampcar - couldn't agree more. The 5-series is a nice ICE, but it's time to move on to greater things :) I'm finalizing the sale of mine this weekend (had to hash out some details about refunding my unused extended warranty... I didn't even know you could do that!). My fourth, and in all likelihood last BMW. Bye-bye i-Drive, hello massive double i-pad!
Swapping out of a 535xi here. I am thankful to BMW for several goods years and teaching me that driving really can be fun, not just a utilitarian experience. Now I just now about something better.
Today, just for fun, when I left it for some minor work before we part, I left the Tesla key tag on dash. Maybe just my imagination, but I think my mechanic looked a little sullen when I picked it up.
Estimated 4 weeks to delivery, but we try not to talk about it around the beemer.